Hi Gwen, I'm new to your blog. We have a puppy labradoodle. Thought about a goldendoodle, but a labradoodle was easier to find. We wanted a larger dog, allergy friendly, but not a poodle. Now we have Heidi, she's 12 weeks old and a real fun pup. We are working hard to do all the "right" things. Our last dog was a fun loving beagle who now lives with my parents because of allergies of our youngest child. No problems with our doodle, though, in that regard. On another note, I could use some advice. with my husband, she's doing really well with her nipping. With me she will sometimes just mouth my hand, but sometimes she gets more aggressive. I am trying the approach my husband does where he makes a low "EH" sound and moves his hand when she releases. I do that sound and she jumps for the rest of my arm more aggressively. She sometimes starts a little growl and everything. I stay calm, and am trying to do everything I can not to encourage her as if I am playing. I am with her all day and she cannot think I'm her littermate. HELP!

becky
 

Hi Becky, Welcome to the blog!
It's actually very common that the person who spends the most time with the puppy is the last to have control over her. She knows you better and knows you're more of a "softie" than your husband. That doesn't mean that you are or are not, but from her perspective, she doesn't spend as much time with him, so she's naturally going to be more careful with him not knowing exactly how he will react if she "pushes" it with him. Also men just naturally seem to command a little more authority in their voice. I'm guessing that your "EH" is just not as perfectly convincing as his because your puppy is so much more in tune with subtleties than we are. So when she gets a little too rambunctious, try a sterner "EH" sound and then abruptly walk away from her and ignore her. Let her know that you simply will not engage or continue any kind of interaction with her if she is going to act that way. If this does not alleviate the problem, then perhaps there is more going on that you may not be aware of. If that is the case, then the chapter on Aggression in "Manners for the Modern Dog" addresses puppy biting and play biting. Even tho right now i would not consider your puppy to be aggressive, it does give some exercises to prevent this type of behavior from getting out of control and one day becoming an aggression problem. And of course, i couldn't stress enough that the information in "Help! My Dog Has an Attitude" would give even further suggestions in raising and training a new puppy if you continue to have any issues with her.
Oh and also please read the blog posts on the section called Name my puppy/ Q&A on biting and unruly behavior. Puppy biting is a problem with many new puppy owners and perhaps some of the ideas exchanged there will help you. Best of luck. and let me know how it goes.
gwen
 

Gwen,

I look forward to reading more about your experience with your new puppy. I have a new baby myself. She is an 11 week old Lab mix named Libby.
Feel free to use the name if you like it!

We got Libby from an Animal Shelter when she was 8 weeks old. She could be mixed with shepherd or hound. She seems to be quite intelligent. She has learned "sit" and the housetraining is going fairly well. She has accidents in the house, but does bark at the back door to go it. She also goes while on the leash. We crate her at night, as well a little bit during the day--if I'm going out generally. (I work from home) And she is extremely friendly and seems to like all people and other dogs alike.

Gwen, I'll be really interested to see if your new puppy does the mouthing and biting thing to the extreme that Libby does. Her teeth are like little needles. I have tried as many methods as I have read about to help: ignoring/social isolation/time outs, bitter apple on my hands, holding her mouth shut, pushing down in the bottom inside of her mouth... I've bought a head halter but have not tried it yet. I have also read about a spray bottle, but have not tried that yet. It is constant! When she's not biting my hands, she's hanging off my pant leg and shoelaces. I have multiple chew toys for her as well. If you have any advice in the meantime, I would be very grateful.

Best wishes! Looking forward to hearing about your new pup and the training!!

Libby's Mom
 

Congratulations on adopting Libby. She sounds like she's really smart and that's good news. But remember that a really smart puppy learns things fast and just as quickly learns how to train us! Sounds like you're trying to get a handle on it early tho and that's good because most people wait til it's too late. You're both so well in all the other areas, that you should make progress with the biting as well. I'm expecting my new puppy to be a little mouthy and bitey because that will indicate that she's a normal puppy.The way you describe Libby doesn't sound extreme, it just feels extreme because those teeth ARE like needles! Usually at a young age, they are biting their littermates and mom-dog and the other dogs in the pack. Since they are not around and she was probably separated from them early hence her arrival at the animal shelter, she has a lot of learning to catch up on. If you can find anyone with a healthy vaccinated puppy or a few well socialized older dogs and let them play together, Libby will learn tons of information about her biting - what is appropriate, what is too hard, what is ok, etc. It's hard for us to communicate all this because we just simply aren't dogs. All our "tricks" like water bottles, time out, bitter apple, etc are usually feeble attempts to communicate our displeasure and yet often just confuse the puppy. It's difficult for the puppy to only hear NO NO NO and not know what is YES YES YES. And socialized dogs speak fluent canine, which we humans don't. (btw, imho, she's way too young for the head halter right now and suppressing her biting instinct by disallowing it completely may set you and her up for bigger problems later.) Ask the shelter and your vet if there are any puppy socialization classes in your area. Please go to amazon. com and order my book, Help! My Dog has an Attitude and it will give you a more complete picture of the biting problem. It's more than simply training your puppy where to do her bathroom duties. It involves socialization, social hierarchy, teaching love and respect and several other issues. Please read about these on my website as well, altho the info there is not detailed as in the book. Search around the internet, there are many books on puppy training besides mine. I wish i could recommend another, but i haven't read them all and new ones keep appearing every day......
I haven't brought my new puppy home yet and it may be several months but i'm already thinking and planning on how to get her around other dogs and puppies so she can continue her education from other dogs after she leaves her mother and littermates. I'm also preplanning who of my friends have children and grandchildren so i can socialize her with them too. I certainly don't want her to be biting and clinging onto their clothing thinking they are little puppies. I'm happy to hear that Libby already loves people and other dogs. That's wonderful!!
Another thing to do in the mean time is give her plenty of exercise and play. Pre-empt the biting by shoving a soft toy into her mouth that she can bite on. When she's worn out from romping and playing, she'll be gentler and calmer and it will be easier for you to teach her what you want when she isn't a wild bundle of uncontrolled energy and a biting machine. The bitter apple is a good suggestion and i've used it effectively, but if it's not used properly, it can sometimes make the puppy frustrated, confused and angry.
And remember, lots of this is puppy behavior and will naturally subside as she gets older and calmer.
good luck and keep me posted. gwen
 

Gwen, thanks for your thoughtful response! Your book is on the way. I do have Libby enrolled in a puppy kindergarten but it doesn't start until second week of January.

In the meantime, I've enlisted the help of Jackson -- our neighbor's 2 year old (giant) lab retriever. They seem to really enjoy each other and wrestled aggressively yesterday. At times I wondered if it was too aggressive...alot of growling in play, especially by Libby... and Jackson rolls on his back while Libby attacks him... then after a while he flips Libby and sends her flying. Jackson's dad and I both gasp, but let them continue. And Libby slept until 6:15 in her crate this morning. A new record.

Jackson's dad tells me they are going to install an invisible fence. He suggested that I get Libby a color too so that she and Jackson can play in their yard. Gwen, what are your thoughts on invisible fences?

Also I might mention, I have a toddler daughter. She and Libby seem to really like each other, but when Libby turns into a biting machine, I keep Libby on a leash while in the house so that she is not hanging off my two year old. But alas, she is then got her teeth stuck in my sweater. I keep shoving the squeaky toy in her mouth, but she seems to enjoy my hands and clothing more. She really tries to snap at me... in play I believe... and sometimes breaks skin.

Yet we continue to be impressed by her intelligence. She always asks to go out, and has not had an accident in the house in two days. And she is getting much better at walking on the leash. She usually comes when called, knowing I have a treat. She now sits automatically before I put her food bowl down.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again, LIbby's Mom
 

Thank you for the progress report. I've seen the invisible fence work wonderfully but i've also seen it backfire horribly. It doesn't keep other animals out of the yard and if another dog or cat or wildlife comes wandering thru it can be too much of a temptation for the dog and often they will run right across the barrier, either forgetting about or simply enduring the consequence. But then when it's time to return, they are "locked" outside the barrier. Also the collars can be bulky and i'm afraid that while Libby and Jackson are wrestling and playing, they will encounter problems with the collars - i've seen dogs bite them off each other or damage them while roughhousing and more dangerously, i've seen one dog get it's tooth, jaw or foot caught in the other dogs collar. So i guess you have to look at all these parameters and then decide. I personally would use a physical barrier because i also want to keep other animals out. Especially where i live now, there is alot of wildlife. I am concerned about your toddler, so please read the section on "Children" when your book arrives. Also i'd really like to hear about the puppy class you take in january. gwen
 

Gwen, I'm writing to you again because I am at a crossroads. Libby is 13 weeks old this week. She is still mouthing and biting. Now, when either my husband or I correct her with a stern voice, her lip curls slightly and she snaps. I am reading your book. I've read the sections on children, socialization, dominance and more. I understand that Libby's actions may be a sign of dominance aggression. I also didn't realize that when she barks at the back door to go out (and come in) that she's also learning that she's in charge. I am also reading everything I can find on the internet. I also realize that Libby is probably a lab/shepherd mix due to her markings (at the shelter, it listed her a lab mix). I have read everything I can find on GSDs -- which distresses me greatly b/c these are not the characteristics I'm looking for in a family pet. I am socializing her everyday. Taking her on short car rides, to Home Depot, walked through the busy city where hords of people (including children) petted and interacted with her. She is not afraid, always has a wagging tail, and is extremely friendly and happy (except for the mouthing). I also try to get her to interact with dogs as frequently as possible. In fact today, I have someone from a puppy daycare/playgroup coming to meet her and I plan on sending her 1-2x a week.

I hand feed her food. I take away her bone and give it back, no problem. I rub her all over, no problem. Her puppy kindergarten class starts next week, in the meantime I have taught her to sit, come, and she 's doing well on the leash (although she was really pulling when I took her to the city... excited and wanted to interact with everyone). She enjoys belly rubs. I'm trying to reward good behavior and kisses. I am trying to apply "No Free Lunch". My vet thought I could get a handle on the mouthing and biting thing... this was before the snapping started so I did not discuss that with him.

I honestly believe my husband and child are INADVERTENTLY sabotaging my best efforts. Despite trying to get my husband to be consistent with my efforts... don't get me started.

I am going to see if I can have a behaviorist come visit this week to evaluate. The symptoms of dominance/aggression I believe are mild. And I know it's because of my family's behavior and not the dog necessarily. She is doing what comes naturally. But I absolutely cannot have an adult dog that exhibits any aggression at all EVER. I'm not talking about the dog will bite if a child shoves a pencil in her ear thing. I'm talking about dominance aggression. I have a toddler as you know. And there are hundreds of children in this neighborhood. I do not want to spend the next 10-15 years having to fear that my dog will bite anyone. She has not earned my trust yet.

I am seriously considering giving her up. This is not something I take lightly--I can't even believe I'm considering it. I grew up with dogs, and then had a wonderful Bearded Collie for 15 years. I do not think of dogs as disposable. I am extremely concerned for her well-being as well as my family's. I am confused and upset and very worried. In your opinion, if Libby is showing dominance/aggression, is this something I can correct--knowing that I just will not have the consistent efforts of my family-- or is it something I'm going to have to battle over and worry about for her lifespan? I don't mind hard work to correct behavioral issues (digging, barking, chewing, jumping, anything else), but biting is something I truly fear. It makes me sick to my stomach to consider giving her back to the shelter, but not as sick as thinking she might snap at my two year old's face. And if I'm going to give her up, it's probably better sooner than later, true?

Thanks so much for your time, Gwen. Libby's Mom
 

I wish everyone were as responsible as you are when it comes to raising and training a pet. I am totally impressed with the time and energy you are investing into trying to assure that Libby is the right pet for your family. Far too many people ignore problems until it's too late. It's important that you put the welfare and safety of your child and the other children in the neighborhood as a priority. Many tragedies would be averted if everyone were as responsible as you. So thank you for that. Your dilemna is difficult and i understand that you do not want to give up if the problem can easily be solved. But if the risk is too high, it would also be wrong to try to force it to work. So i take your situation very seriously and sincerely. It's difficult for me to diagnose Libby without seeing her so i'm hoping that your behaviorist and vet will have a better assessment on whether Libby is exhibiting dominance aggression. It could be situational (when you or your husband use a stern voice). One experiment you can do which when repeated also becomes a training session is to say sometime in that same stern voice at a time when you are not trying to scold her or in a situation where she doesn't deserve to be scolded. So let's say you're playing with her or taking her for a walk or hand feeding her and then say in that stern voice " Libby, you are a good girl!! and blah blah blah" using the same stern tone and posture and body language and see what happens. You might be able to just desensitize her to the stimulus that makes her react aggressively. I'm sure in your reading you've also come to realize that your reaction to her display of lip curling and snapping also plays a big role on whether she continues the behavior or not.
It sounds like you are doing everything right and that Libby is intelligent and responsive. She doesn't sound like a dominant puppy from what you describe, but your trainer should be able to tell more easily by observing her. I can usually spot a dominant puppy within 10 seconds, but when the owner describes the puppy i would never guess it because they aren't looking for the same things i'm seeing. But when pointed out, it becomes clear. I would appreciate you sharing what the trainer and behavior have to say when they evaluate her. Whatever you do, there's 2 things i want to say. First, snapping is snapping regardless of the cause or reason. it could be play, it could be aggression, it could be dominance, it could be fear, and on and on. But it's still a danger and liability. So if it can't be stopped and you keep her as a family pet, you will always have to live constantly with that risk and make arrangements to prevent her from snapping at anyone. Second, if you decide you are unable to stop her snapping behavior, no one can accuse you of not going overboard to try to solve it. You clearly have your priorities in order and i think anyone will respect that. It's difficult to train a puppy without problems and it's a monumental task trying to train a puppy, a husband and a child all at the same time.
 

Angel, my 11 week old Golden puppy, has the same biting and snapping problem that was described in Libby. I tried hitting her on the nose, but found that only started to make her head shy, so I stopped that. Now I am using a stern voice and saying "No Bite", and sticking a chewtoy in her mouth. She seems to be reacting better to that. She came home with me at 7 weeks, and her breeder says she is not having this problem with her pup that she kept with mamma dog, from the litter. Angel is to start Puppy Classes at PetSmart in a week. We have a 7.5 yr old Otterhound who weights about 95 pounds, a neutered male who has been with us since he was 1 year. He was returned to his breeder because he got so large and unmanageable, and could not be taken out on a leash. Our older dogs taught him some manners, but they are both gone now. It has fallen to him to help us with the puppy, and he is doing his best. I think in time, they will be great playmates. I sometimes keep Angel on a leash, attached to my belt or wrist as I go around the house doing work, so that the OH doesn't have to deal with her all the time. Because of that, she has learned to walk on a leash fairly well for a pup. It also helps keep her involved in the daily goings on instead of in her crate, when I can't attend to her every movement. She has also been pretty successful at Potty Training. I put her on an "Outside" schedule of every 1 to 1.5 hours, and it seems to have worked. No accidents in 4 days, and then only 1 accident in 4 days before that. It's just the bitting and chewing on my arms and fingers that concerns me. I will continue to read the Blogs and try your advice. Thanks again for the suggestions already. Linda McL
 

Gwen, Things are taking a turn for the better. My new motto, "when in doubt, seek professional help."

Step One: A behaviorist came for an hour and declared Libby as a normal puppy. She found no signs of aggression or dominance. She thinks the snapping was defensive -- Libby most likely felt threatened by our stern voices in her face. She went over the "puppy yelp sound" and deny attention technique to help with mouthing/biting. She taught me a "settle down" technique. I asked what to do if Libby snaps at me again and she said to laugh at her, essentially. As if to say "Libby, you twit, you're not going to hurt me." The biggest benefit of the behaviorist: my husband is taking the whole thing a bit more seriously now. She also recommended (instead of bitter apple) "Calgon's Spa Feet Retreat" to spray on our shoes/pantlegs and the leash if she's biting the leash. Apparently dogs hate the taste. I kid you not.

Step Two: at the vet's approval, I got her into a doggy daycare/playgroup. Today was her first day. I'm sending her 2x week. She is picked up and dropped off, an added convenience. She played with 10 other dogs today of various ages, sizes and breeds. Corbin, the director, dropped her off and said she did "awesome" and "I'm not just saying that" and "I think you've got a winner." He was very enthusiastic. He explained that she did not overpower the smaller more timid dogs, and was responsive to the correction of the older/larger dogs. She was in the middle of the pack. And not fearful at all. All this costs $, but I'm looking at it as an investment so that I have a well-socialized even-tempered doggy. Added bonus: Corbin will board his regular clients in his home if we go on vacation... and she'll already be used to it.

Step Three: Puppy Kindergarten starts next week...

I really do appreciate all of your time and support, Many Thanks Again! Libby's Mom
 

Very interesting reading about Libby and her nipping.We are having similar issues with our 13 wk old yellow lab pup,Lily.
I was determined not to get the most dominant pup in the litter,but she was the only available bitch,and she was just so darned smart and cute,and she seemed to pick us...
I was getting concerned,but am releived after hearing that the behaviorist gave you the thumbs up with Libby.I hope you will post how the training goes.Wrapping Lily up tight in a blanket helps calm her down,if she gets really out of hand.Sometimes we just have to crate her.
Lily's Dad
 

Well tried something different with Lily today.
Our minister told us of a family he knew with a dog that wouldn't submit to the wife.She was advised to put the dog in a headlock even though she only outweighed him by about 10 lbs.
Lily was busy biting my son and I today,and laughing(with teeth)at every attempt to get her to stand down.So I put her in a headlock.Gently but firm.She hasn't nipped in hours,though she seems a little P.O.ed at me.
We'll see how it goes.
Lily's Dad
 

Gwen
I have had my GR puppy for 4 weeks now. Her first night here was horrible, even with a scent towel I sent to her breeder a few weeks before I picked her up. I think her crate was too small (it was a big cat size for a 15 lb. pup). The next day her regular crate arrived with divider pannel and I set it up in our bedroom on my side, in place of the bedside table. She was up every 3 hours the first few days, but the whinning stopped for the most part, after she got into her bigger crate. She is now just 12 months old and sleeping most of the night. She does wake up when my husband gets up at 3 am (UGH!)to go to work at 4. Of course she wants to play for a bit, but then I can get her to go back to sleep for a few more hours.
Her puppy biting is driviing me crazy, though. She does not respond to "NO" very well, but I continue to use it and withdraw from play. I don't want to hit or slap at her as 1)she is faster than me and can duck, and 2) I don't want her to get used to running away from me and 3)I don't want her to get head shy. So far, the only other dog she has to play with is our 96 lb neutered Otterhound, who is not pleased with her presence. He did not mind the adult dogs we had in the past, but she is the first puppy he has had to deal with. I have tried to let them interact but have limited her boistrious behavior around him by keeping her on a leash in the evenings. He has gotten better, and lately is playing better with her as long as they are outside.
I'd appreciate any suggestions you may have.
Thanks. Linda McL
 

This is what i've done in the past with my biting puppies. It's also described in my book, "Help! My Dog has an Attitude" available from amazon.com. When i get my new puppy I plan to video the exercises i do with her and put them on either my blog or website so readers can see exactly what and how i deal with her. But that won't help you right now.
First I do all the respect exercises making sure that my puppy knows I am the "mom-dog substitute" and not another littermate. Then when she mouths or bites too hard, first i "yelp" to get the point across in dog language that she inflicted pain, then i immediately roll her onto her side (NOT on her back) and hold her there until she calms down. Some of my pups have struggled and screamed but i knew it was a psychological attempt to control me as I knew without a doubt that I wasn't physically hurting her. Other pups struggled for a moment and then immediately became passive/respectful. If you can ever watch a mother dog reprimand her puppy, she does exactly the same thing. It's a little difficult to describe so i can't wait til i have the video to show how it's done, but perhaps the trainer in your upcoming (if not already started) puppy kindergarten class knows the technique or has something similar. But once the pup gets the message, the biting almost immediately stops or at least subsides. However, that still isn't the entire answer. She still needs to be able to play and act like a puppy so the interaction with other dogs and your OH will be continually more important.
I smile when you say she is up every 3 hours. I remember that well with all my prior puppies and i so look forward to it again. crazy huh??? But I also know it doesn't last long and i'm so willing to put up with that for the rewards it will bring the rest of her life. I will gladly get up at 3am for my pup, but begrudingly get up at 4am for a job!! yuck. My condolences to and admiration for your husband!!!
I'm happy to read that you will not slap or hit her. That only has negative results, altho some people claim that it solves the immediate problem. They are either incredibly lucky or have not realized the damage they have done psychologically to their pup and the consequences of it. Usually they never put the cause and result together. One day they just wonder why their dog is ....... fill in the blank.
When your OH and Angel are outside playing, make a conscious effort to watch their interactions. I'm sure you'll learn alot about how your OH teaches Angel. It may be subtle, but if you pay close attention you'll notice how effective it is. Now you can try to replicate as much as possible (within reason) the message the OH gives to her.
Please keep me posted. One day soon I too will have my Angel........ (that is her name isn't it???) g
 

I was reading "Becky's" post regarding the puppy biting etc.

After 15 years with the very best behaved samoyed named Sam, my children and I purchased a rat terrier named Zoey. Sam never left the yard of the property we lived or visited. Never barked or growled unless the situation called for true danger. Never made mistakes in the home and never ate table scraps until her last month with us. This little rattie is a brattie as my children have stated. Unlike Becky's puppy, Zoey obeys me (with her all day) however, she displays the very same behavior that Becky's pup is exhibiting with the children.

Zoey was only six weeks old when she joined our family. At six weeks she weighed a wopping 1.2lbs and currently at 12 weeks is about 3 lbs. How do we stop the bitting and aggression? She stops the instant I direct her to only to continue again the moment I leave her view.

Will she eventually outgrow this? She has a million chew toys and I have instructed my children to always have one available when holding her or playing to redirect her biting to the toy. Should we just continue along this path?
 

Mina,
First, thank you for your other 2 posts (for those of you who haven't read them, they are on Dog Trainer Without a Dog and Name my Puppy.) The story about Sam brought tears to my eyes. I'm sure there are many others who can relate to our stories. Thank you for sharing a part of Sam with all of us.
Now onto the little rat terror.....
Zoey will most likely not just "grow" out of this behavior without some interference and instruction on your part. Follow the advice given to Becky and some of the others with biting puppies and you should see some remarkable improvement. If not, then you probably need to get into some kind of structured training that involves the children. In the mean time, yes, they should have a toy to distract Zoey and something she can bite on besides them. But you should also be there to help them scold her for her overly rambunctious behavior. Teach them to scold her as you do and be there to back them up if Zoey ignores them. Since she listens to you and disobeys the moment you are gone, then pretend like you've left and watch her from a window, behind a doorway or piece of furniture or even from a mirrow strategically placed. And when she starts biting the girls, immediately jump out of hiding and reprimand her so that she thinks you are omnipresent. Even if she can't see you, somehow you're there. You really need to take her by surprise tho or it won't work. Eventually she'll catch on, but i do really recommend you get one of the books i've written because rat terriers are so different from sammies as you're already experiencing. She will be a lot of fun tho and there are many many happy years ahead, but rat terriers can be extremely "scrappy" little dogs and altho small in size, they are very "big" in attitude and temperament.
 

Hi Gwen,
I wrote in previously about my 4 month old cocker spaniel. He seems to be doing better, and I utilize his crate/laudry room when I need to get things done; usually after a meal or after a walk, etc.
My question is still about his jumping and biting (nipping? playing?) with my kids. He doesn't do it so much with me or my husband, but he seems to know they are weaker than he and he latches on to clothing and literally jumps up almost to their faces repeatedly when excited. I hollar at him constantly "get down" "no, get down" but it isn't working long term only for the second. Should I be saying or doing somethng in conjunction with this? It seems to phase him very little.
One more question pertains to him peeing every time my husband comes home. I've read things about puppies having little control over this, but will it stop? Any tips on that as well?

Thank you,
Michelle
 

Hello Michelle,
You don't say how old your children are, but perhaps they need to be trained as well. It's probably best right now not to leave the kids and the puppy alone unsupervised. He obviously can't be trusted with them yet and needs more instruction. Everytime he gets away it, it's eroding all the training and time and effort you're putting into it. So only let the kids and puppy interact when you or your husband is there to continuously work with him. If he doesn't tone down his play, then let him know that no one will play with him. After a verbal scolding, put him in his crate/laundry room for 10 to 15 minutes or so. Hopefully he'll soon realize that if he plays too rough, he will have no one to play with. And if he behaves himself, then he gets to continue to interact. Please remember he's only 4 months old so it's going to take lots of practice and repetition, just as it will with children. And keep in mind that he's gotten away with his rambunctious behavior enough times that he will continue to try to do so.
Cocker spaniels are notorious for submissive and excitement peeing. Sometimes no matter what you do, it never goes away because it's just something in the breeding of these dogs. However, let's assume he'll grow out of it with your help. Please read the 2 articles i've written on this subject at www.perfectpaws.com/subr.html and www.perfectpaws.com/excur. html
 

Hey Gwen,
Thanks for your response about my 4 mo cocker. The kids are 4 and 6 and the worst behavior on Willis' part takes place in the moring usually when they come down for breakfast. I make them acknowledge him, since he wants their attention, but he is so excited to see them. Try as I might, my biggest challenge is re-directing him so they can literally walk across the floor to the breakfast table or the restroom, etc. This is after 15 20 mins even. I will try putting him up if the behavior continues - I just wondered if "off" was a better word than "down" and I know some people clamp the mouth of the dog together when puppies nip -- stuff like that. I just want to stop the jumping up on people before it gets to be a way of life for him; it's a bad habit to me and annoying to guests, etc.
 

I understand how it's difficult to try to train the puppy and at the same time get the kids started in the morning, as well as yourself and probably your husband too. It's a busy time of day and you probably don't have a lot of time to devout to training at the moment all this excitement occurs. And understandably he's happy to see them first thing in the morning. So what i would do is put him on a body harness, rather than a collar, so that if he leaps around and strains on the leash, he won't hurt his neck or throat. Then tie the other end of the leash to a table or chair leg or something he can't drag. Be sure he can't reach the kids at the end of the leash so they can walk across the kitchen without getting ambushed. Then you can tend to breakfast and Willis can be with everyone, but he can't be getting away with the leaping and nipping. Then after everything is done and cleaned up and you have the time to devote to him, you can let them interact. By now he should also be more calm because the initial excitement is over and he hasn't gotten away with his unwelcome behavior. I've had to do this with several puppies. I just can't deal with them and do an effective job of training til after my first cup of coffee!!! So i suppose what i'm trying to say is "prevention." Prevent him from getting away with his behavior and postpone your interactions with him until you have the time to devote to it. It's difficult to try to do too many things at once. much less trying to do it first thing in the morning with a 4 and 6 year old as well! You certainly have your hands full and i admire you trying to raise a family and the new puppy and deal with your cat plus everything else that goes on on a daily basis. I couldn't even imagine myself trying to juggle all that right now in my life, i'm getting too old for that........ (smile)
oh, one more thing, please don't leave him tied to a leash and unsupervised for even one minute. It's amazing how dogs can tangle themselves up in the most unusual ways.
 

Hi Gwen - I am having problems with my 4 month old Saint Bernard. She is the cutest dog in the world until we go out for our daily walks. She will be fine for about the first four blocks or so and then she will turn towards me and bite my legs through my pants. (I have gone through 4 pairs of work pants in the last month.) When I try to correct her she will growl a deep threatening growl and continue biting me. We will continue on this way until we get home. When we get in the house she will want to play with me. Needless to say, I am so frustrated with her by this time I want NOTHING to do with her.

She is the most enjoyable dog any other time except for during our walks.

We are in our second week of puppy kindergarten classes and she doesn't act out during class, but hopefully will learn that the biting is the wrong behavior.

Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated!!!
 

Your St.Bernard sounds like a perfect candidate for either a Gentle Leader or Halti style collar/leash.
It will take a little time for her to adjust to it, but once she does, it should definitely stop that obnoxious behavior. Then, like training wheels on a bicycle, once she can walk without all the biting, etc. then you can revert back to a standard collar. Ask the instructor of your PK class to show you how to use the collar. If he or she doesn't know, ask the proprietor of the pet store or call around from your phone book and ask different trainers until you find one with experience using them. If used right and properly fitted, they are extremely gentle and effective.
There are much more time consuming methods that work with this issue and if you decide you want to try, let me know and i'll tell you what i've done with my dogs. But if this is the only problem you have and there are no other issues, then this is probably the quickest and simplest cure.
 

Hi Gwen
SO glad I came across your site today - I have an almost 6 month old goldendoodle, Sophie who nipping and biting everyone in the family. Does not listen to stern "not bites" and seems to be spending lots of time in her crate when the nipping and biting gets out of hand. Even when I am sitting quietly at the table, she will come over, jump up and grab my arm, shake her head and growl. We have started our second session of puppy training, and although she behaves like a happy little puppy when other people are around her, the biting is really getting us down at home. We had an 8 1/2 yr old bichon who was so relaxed and calm and Sophie seems to be adding so much chaos to our lives. We play with her and give her lots of attention but the biting seems to put a quick end to playing. Now, she has started barking to get further attention. I think it all has to do with attention seeking but how do we give her the attention she wants without her biting and nipping us back. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Deb
 

Hi Deb,
This is a very common way for goldens to try to play and get attention, especially at this age. I'm glad to read that she is in a puppy training class. Discuss this with your instructor who should have plenty of suggestions on how to handle this, since it is such a common problem owners face with any dog around this age. I'm sure many other students are probably experiencing the same issues at home too. Your trainer should have solutions that are not based on any kind of hitting or physical violence or dominating the dog in any way such as alpha rollovers. If this is suggested, then i personally would not go back to that class. Most instructors teach an "off" or "leave it" command which means that the dog should not touch it with their mouth or even their paws. So when Sophie tries to grab your arm, you can use the Off command and give her a toy to play with instead. Constantly putting her in a crate will only make the problem worse. She needs an outlet for her energy and perhaps a good game of fetch or chase the toy will be enough. Try to pre-empt her by giving her something to put in her mouth before it's your hands or arms. Goldens love to have things in their mouth. Buy a bunch of different toys and see which ones she likes. Mine loved stuffed squeekies and she had dozens and dozens of them. I'd toss one down the hallway or across the yard for her repeatedly until she tired out and would just plop down and rest or chew on her toy by herself. She didn't have to bring the toy back, because if i waved one around and squeeked it, she would drop the one she had and come running for the one i was waving around. She eventually retrieved, but in the mean time, i always had another toy ready to throw for her. Also tennis balls work well too. In your puppy class you will also be teaching her to sit and lie down and stay. When she knows them she'll be easier to control as well because you can just tell her to sit-stay. She can't be jumping up on you and the family if she is sitting and staying. Then with her under control, you can then toss a toy for her to chase and she doesn't ever even get the opportunity to jump on you or touch you much less bite and nip at you. I know you said you do play with her, but at this age, they need way more than we think they do. The best way to give her what she needs is to let her play with other friendly dogs.
Does she get any off leash time in class to play with the other pups? If not, try to find a dog fairly equal in size and age and temperament and ask the owner if the two of them can get together to play. She needs to wrestle and mouth and have an outlet for this behavior, but it should be with a canine playmate, not a human playmate. Maybe someone else in class lives nearby and you can arrange for some playdates with your puppies.
 

Hi Gwen,

I just wanted to give an update on Libby's progress. She is 17ish weeks old now. She has been going to "puppy playgroup" 2x a week (which is mostly older dogs actually). She also plays with 2 very friendly adult labs in the neighborhood. And we have been to 3 sessions of puppy kindergarten where there is also a play time.

Her mouthing/biting has improved considerably! I no longer think she is part barracuda. But it is still not eliminated. Often, she does it for attention. For example, when I'm working at the computer or eating dinner, she'll come up and grab my sweater. If I "yelp", she goes for me more aggressively. And sometimes, its just out of excitement when there's a lot of activity going on. I do see her stop herself sometimes... I'll see her pick up her pace to go after a passing pant leg... but then she doesn't grab on. And sometimes, she's perfect, chewing her bullystick next to us as my toddler and I do a puzzle on the floor. Or now, she is sleeping on the floor next to me. She has not lip-curled or snapped since my last update, maybe a month ago. And she continues to be friendly to people (adults, kids, seniors) and dogs alike.

She growled at the neighbor's cat when I was walking her the other day. Arrrgh!

Honestly, I don't think the "yelp and ignore" curtails her mouthing very much. But she will "sit" and "down" now on command. So that helps a little when she gets mouthy.

I'll be reallllly happy when we're through
this stage : > It can be very wearing. I find it much much easier to teach her new commands (which she is very quick to learn) than to stop the unwanted behavior.

Thanks! I continue to read your very informative and helpful blog!

Libby's Mom
 

Hello again,
Thanks for the update. It sounds like Libby is improving remarkably well and doing great especially since she is only about 4 months old. She's showing signs that she's catching on and will constantly continue to improve until that puppy play biting finally completely goes away - as long as you continue her training and play time with the other dogs. Eventually she'll mellow out, but we're looking at 2 years or more. I think you're right that at this time in her development and training, you no longer need to do the "yelp and ignore" thing. She is much more advanced and you can now tell her to sit or lie down and "work" for your attention rather than try to snag you with her mouthing. Thanks again for the update. I'm happy to read about her improvement! gwen
 

As you have read from all the other posts from people with problems exactly like yours, the problem needs to be addressed from several angles. Once his puppy class begins the biting and jumping should decrease dramatically as he will have playmates with whom he can bite and jump on and get out all his puppy play and energy needs. He has to have an outlet for his energy, so it won't work to just try to stop his behavior. Walking away and ignoring him is a good idea, but his need is still there. Try to find constructive ways to play with him, such as letting him chase a ball or squeeky toy down the hallway or in your yard. He can bite the toy and leap on it instead of you. It's best to see when he's in this mood and pre-empt it. So start the game before he starts on you, otherwise he may think that by biting and jumping on you, he can get you to play with him. There are times usually once a day sometimes twice and usually after a meal, that puppies go stark raving bonkers. They will race around your house wildly in circles biting and tackling anything in their path. Usually this only lasts a few minutes and then as they mature, the episodes are less frequent and have less intensity. When this occurs, just stand back and get out of the way. It's next to impossible to get their attention or any point across during this mad-time. But it's also critical that he not get away with unacceptable behavior like biting. The best you can do is prevent him from biting by staying out of his way. Once he has some playmates much of his behavior will subside. Also once he's in class, he can start learning alternative behaviors. For example: you can ask him to sit-stay so he doesn't jump up. It's also a good idea to start having him understand that you are the pack leader and this will also help him treat you with a little more respect and not as a littermate. There is a section in my book, Manners for the Modern Dog that explains how to do this and provides other tips on how to deal with biting. Since you are a first time puppy owner i would also highly suggest you read the Help My Dog has an Attitude book even tho he doesn't have an attitude now. The book is filled with suggestions on how to raise him from the start to assure he grows into the companion dog you desire.
 

We have a 9 week old springer spaniel/Bichion cross.He is very active and well behaved except for the biting.He is constantly biting whenever we try to play with him,
My four year old son is always running and screaming whenever the puppy gets near him.We are trying to stop him by telling him that Trip will not hurt him,but then Trip gets all excited and tries to pull off his pants with his teeth. What can I do he is so small that I am afraid that he will get hurt by my son and yet I understand why he is afraid of the little teeth they realy hurt.Any advice would be greatly apreciated.
 

It sounds as if you are experiencing the same problems with your puppy as many of the other bloggers. If you read their posts and replies, i think you will find some helpful info. Basically, what is happening with your son and the puppy is pretty normal. It's difficult for a 4 yr old to understand that his behavior is enticing the puppy to play with him like he were another puppy. And your puppy is too young to know exactly how he supposed to play. So until you spend the time with both of them instructing them on proper behavior, the problem won't go away. It's a process that needs your guidance and can take several weeks or even months to accomplish. To help your son not feel like a rag doll, be sure to supervise closely all of their encounters. By this i mean, (which is what i do with my puppy and children) i actually physically hold the puppy so he literally cannot jump up and bite or mouth the child. By restraining the pup, the child sees he can reach for and pet the puppy without the risk of getting bitten. With time, the child's confidence increases and he will be able to interact with puppy without fear. And you'll be secure knowing the child won't accidentally harm the puppy.
When you can't be there to supervise, then they need to be separated. Every time puppy jumps on and bites your child, it's a huge step backwards. Puppy is learning he can get away with biting and jumping and your child's fear of the puppy will be reinforced. It's very difficult and time consuming to raise a child and it's difficult and time consuming to raise a puppy. Trying to do both is a monumental and admirable task, so please be patient with their progress but at the same time, don't take any risks.
I won't repeat everything i've already written about in prior posts on puppies biting their owners, but just a synopsis: puppy needs an appropriate playmate and outlet for his doggy behavior and all his energy. He needs to learn some basic obedience commands like sit, stay and off. ONce he learns them, even your 4 yr old son should be able to give the command and puppy will obey. Now your son will be very confident because he'll see he can control the puppy. And puppy will be easier to control because he knows what the commands mean and he has other pups, dogs and lots of toys to play with and doesn't need to treat your son like a littermate.
 

Hi Gwen: Thanks so much for the response regarding Riley and his jumping and biting. The good news is, he hardly jumps up anymore. We have been raising our knee and saying down. It is definately working for my husband and myself, but not so much for my 12 year old. Riley still treats him like a litter mate. Riley gets his 2nd set of shots tomorrow and we begin our puppy classes next week. I did mention in my fist email that Riley was a bit anxious when we brought him home, well he has been here for 2 weeks and is still really skittish when anyone comes in our home, also outside very nervous. When I take him out the front there is lots of action, as we live on a court and he stands right beside me, very scared. I make light of it, and walk towards the kids playing etc. Is the shyness part of puppyhood. Also, in past 2 days Riley has growled at me, that it actually scared me! He was chewing on our bottom steps, so 3 or 4 times I told him NO and tried to give him a chew toy. The 5th time I tried this, he gave a definately growl and made a motion to bite me!!!! I walked away. Dont know that was the correct thing to do???? He also got ahold of a shirt from the laundry pile, I went to take from him, tried to give him chew toy a few times, then he did the same thing.. deep growl and went to nip me. Is this normal for a puppy to do???????????? Because Riley is a Golden Doodle I know he is going to be a big dog, and I defiantely want a well behaved dog! I cant have a dog in the house I dont trust. Any suggestions or help would be greatly apprectiated!!
Angela
 

Hi Angela,
It sounds like Riley has several issues going on. Fortunately he is still very young so you should be able to get a handle on it, but you need to act fast because as you realize, every day he gets bigger and probably more stubborn unless you take some action. I'm concerned about his apparent possessive aggression. It could just be play, but i can't evaluate that without seeing him in action. However, if it is possessiveness, it could signal a huge problem ahead. Generally once a dog exhibits this behavior it only escalates unless a training plan is put into force immediately. Please read the chapter on Possessiveness and Who's in Charge Here? in the Help! book. If you don't resolve that now, eventually he will be dangerous to have around children. If he's guarding anything and challenging you when you try to take it away, he may steal something of the kids and when they try to retrieve it, he may bite them in the face (because they are shorter and their faces are closer and easier to reach) I'm sure you agree that this is not acceptable. The chapter on fearfulness and socialization will help you with those issues, altho it appears you are handling that well. As you are doing, it's best to just ignore his fear and not play into it. Soon he'll see from experience that these things are not scarey. Once he starts his puppy class, lots of his shyness and rambunctiousness will subside as we discussed in the prior post. You can also ask your instructor for suggestions on his growling over possessions. Perhaps the trainer can 'test" him and evaluate his behavior for you.
This is not "normal" puppy behavior. A puppy may try it once or twice in his natural setting but the elders of the pack, or mom dog will make the rules very clear that this behavior won't be tolerated and it doesn't happen again. The problem is we can't speak canine so we have to adapt to teaching him in a way he can understand. The chapter Communicating with Your Dog in the Manners book addresses this. I'm glad your puppy class begins next week. Keep me posted on his progress.
 

Hi Gwen...It's Sammie's mom again. Just wanted to let you know that I found a kong and Sammie absolutely loves it! I give it to him once or twice a day as a substitute for one of his reward treats. Thank you so much for your advice. I'm a lot calmer now. One more question about biting and chewing. He loves to bite my socks (when I'm wearing them). I've constantly told him no, but sometimes he doesn't listen very well. Any suggestions?
 

Sammie has probably learned that you are a little more interactive when he bites your socks with your feet in them. YOu should be able to see it coming, so before he does that, give him another outlet. Toss a soft toy he can latch his teeth into and let him play with that as he tries to play with your socked feet. Move the toy around or throw it down the hall so he has something a little more interactive than the kong.
 

Hi Gwen,
It's me again - the girl with Willis the 5 month old cocker. Things have been going great, and I really thought we were on track...until today when Willis literally lunged at my 4 year old when she got near him while eating a raw hide. She was standing upright, not even down by him or his treat, and he growled first in a very aggressive way, and I stepped between them and pushed her away but he jumped and got her on the nose with his teeth. I immediately put him in the laundry room to tend to her and left him there for a good 30 mins. I feel helplesss.
Ironically, I had read some stuff about picking up food during meals and taking toys away, etc. and I have been doing that with no incident to myself. But last week he did growl at my 6 year old while we all sat on the couch together as he chewed on a different rawhide treat. I immediately took it away and hoped it was a fluke.
In the past I have let the kids set his bowl down sometimes when I feed him in an effort to keep everyone involved around food and he has never done anything but sit quietly. I thought I was doing the right things.
I'm really at a crossroads here - I obviously have to have a dog (and he is only a puppy now!) that I can trust around my kids - and I'm def. not feeling that right now. Please tell me what you think -
thanks for all your advice,
Michelle
 

Michelle,
this does not sound good at all. You've been doing the right thing by working with his food bowl and his toys, but apparently this particular rawhide chew was more important to him, and who knows what else he may decide to protect or defend. It also sounds like he is not showing respect towards your children. If he is exhibiting this behavior at such a young age, most likely it will continue without a rigorous training program. Even with a program he is bound to have some failures and i personally would not take a chance that my puppy would bite my children or any child for that matter.
 

Hi Gwen...This is Sammie's mom again...my name is Teri, BTW. Just wanted to let you know that Sammie is doing really well with the house training...no mistakes for almost 2 weeks. I am now trying to get him used to the leash and it's a bit hard, but am trying to reward with treats. Can't let him off the leash too much outside because, as you know, he's hound and loves to dig in the dirt (mostly sand here in what is called the Sandhills of North Carolina) and he loves to chew the grass or weeds. He's still nipping at my feet a bit but I think he's gradually learning the word no or eh eh eh. He doesn't seem to want me to play with him as much as he once did. He's used to going to other rooms with me (when I know he's empty, of course) and still hasn't made a boo boo. In fact, I leave the bedroom door open now (where his kennel is) and I find him in there sunning himself at the french doors. Sometimes he'll take a toy from the living room (where they usually are) with him to the bedroom. He amuses himself pretty well now. I do constantly check on him, but is it okay to let him do this? I know you've said that most puppies are fully house trained until they are 6 months old, but does this sound okay to you?

I put him in his kennel when he goes to sleep (usually in my lap or on my shoulder) and he makes no trouble. I think he likes sleeping there. My question is, should I wait until he barks or whines to get him out? And how long should I let him sleep during the day? I mean, usually after an hour to an hour or half if I haven't heard anything, I'll go and check on him. Sometimes he's just sitting there. When I open the door and tell him he can come out, he waits a little while. Should I close the door again and wait for the bark or keep encouraging him to come out? He is sleeping all night...usually from about 9:30 or 10 until 6:30 when my husband's alarm goes off. Should I worry about the time he sleeps during the day?
I am ordering your book, but since it will take a while, thought I'd ask these questions. Thanks for the great advice on this blog. I enjoy reading everyone's questions and your answers. A lot of time it answers my questions.
 

Hi Teri,
Still sounds like you're doing great and everything is fine. If he's doing ok being out of the crate then continue with that, just be aware that if there is a set back, it's not his fault and you'll both be fine.
However, it's not a good idea to wait for him to bark or whine to be let out of his crate as we don't want to create a barking/whining problem. If you really feel he is trustworthy, then just leave the crate door open. When you open the door, if he doesn't want to come out yet, then just leave the door open and wait for him to emerge on his own time. It's amazing how much sleep they need and you really want to let him get as much as he wants or needs. And you don't want to become a pest by constantly waking him up, yet you don't know whether he needs to go out, so just leave the door open when you're going to be around to watch him. You might even put a little bell on his collar to alert you to when he's up and about. But if you think it's about time for him to go out to do his business, it's ok to wake him up and take him out, just be sure to let him go back to sleep if he wants to afterwards. You're both doing fantastic! I hope it goes this well with my new puppy.
 

It's not too late as she's still very young and the problems you describe do not sound too severe. Pitbulls are extremely intelligent and usually easy to train, so you have that going for you. The down side is she is probably pretty big and strong. But i think you'll need some help because it doesn't sound like the rest of the family is too willing to help you. The quickest and simplest way to go is to enroll in a dog training class as soon as possible. I hope your mom will support you in that. Classes are usually on weekends and sometimes in the evening. Ask your veterinarian for phone numbers.If you can find some kind of community program or kennel club, the prices should be very inexpensive as well. Good luck and keep reading!
 

Hi Gwen...This is Sammie's mom, Teri. Just thought I'd give you an update. Sammie is doing great--at least I think so. He's still wants to bite at my feet, so I went out today and got some nasty-tasting spray to see if that works on him. Also, he's getting better on the leash (although he still doesn't like it). I am getting a harness for him tomorrow. With all the talk on your blog about socializing the puppy with other dogs, I was wondering...what does one do if they live in an area where there is no doggy day care or dog parks? BTW, have you gotten your puppy yet? I never mentioned a name to you, but I can tell you what my name for a girl dog has always been....Chloe. I just love that name. Feel free to use it if you like it. And again, thanks for the great tips on your blog. I enjoy reading them.
 

Hi Teri and Sammie,
I'm going to have the same problem as there are no dog parks or day care here either. But it seems that most of my friends, neighbors and acquaintances have dogs so i will ask if i can bring my pup over to meet and visit with their dogs. And i'll also invite them over to my home as well. Anyway, if Sammie isn't going to be meeting and interacting with other dogs on a regular bais, then his need for socialization is not as critical. The biggest thing tho is the outlet for the biting and the rough and tumble play. I love the name Chloe, but my friend has already nabbed that name for her pup. She's going to get one of the littermates. I hope to have some news on my new pup very soon. Thanks for the update on Sammie and i'm glad to hear that you're happy with his improvement. And just a side note, i too always use a harness on my puppy instead of a collar. gwen
 

Hi Gwen...this is Sammie's mom, Teri. We just wanted to say congratulations on your Kaylee. They all look adorable..don't know how you're gonna choose just one from that litter. Sammie just had his second visit with the vet and did great...he's up to 6.8 lbs now. The vet did clip one toenail a little too short and it bled a little..Sammie did not like that at all! The vet also gave us a harness which Sammie is trying his best to get out of! Anyway, thanks again for your great advice and this website. Hope you and Kaylee have a great time bonding! Will write soon and let you know how the harness training works!
 

Gwen,

Just adopted a rescued yellow lab pup. She is awesome and seems to be a quick learner on the basics.
She is estimated to be about 11 weeks old. We have a 6 year old SHeltie that we also got as a rescue when he was a pup. The puppy wants to play with the older dog constantly, but he growls and has even bit her a couple of times. The older dog has been around other dogs with no problems, but for some reason, he is not warming up to the puppy. We have had the puppy for almost a week now and we already are in love witht the dog, but we are worried about this and wonder if there is something we could do to better socialize them to one another.
Thanks,
Joel
 

Joel,
There's not really a whole lot to do other than give them lots of time. It's taken my older dogs sometimes over 6 months to accept a new puppy into the house. I just left them alone and they became very close friends eventually, every time. Don't reprimand the older dog or try to force him to accept the puppy. You can try praising him if he shows any signs of friendliness. Try taking them for walks together as well.
 

Hi Gwen,

Its me again, with Zelda, the sheltie/parson mix. As I said in my other post, she sees dogs all the time and plays with them a bit. Everytime she plays with me though, she has to lunge and nip. Its only play, not aggressive, but needs to be stopped none the less. I've read extensively to try to get her to stop, but nothing has worked. I don't play games that encourage her to bite my hands, I turn around and ignore her when she hits my skin, even put her in "time outs" in the kitchen when the teeth hit skin. I also say sternly "no bite" when she does, this will stop her for a second, but then she's right back at it. None of this has seemed to discourage her at all. Any other suggestions? I feel like I've tried everything you've suggested!!

Thanks for your help again
 

Hi Steph,
Maybe you're expecting too much too quickly. Are you seeing any improvement at all? Usually this kind of behavior doesn't disappear overnight. It requires repetition and patience. Training is a process, not a one-shot event. If she's getting an outlet for her biting with other dogs and you're not encouraging her to bite you and you continue to reprimand her for biting, then it may just be that you need to give her more time. If she absolutely is not showing any improvement, then perhaps she doesn't look on you as a leader, but as someone she can boss and push around. I don't think that's the case, however you may watch for subtle things you say and do that make her think she's in control. Maybe your "stern" no-bite is not as stern as you think. Perhaps you can be a little more theatrical to get your point across. When you say you've "tried everything" tell me what exactly that is and what her reaction has been. Sometimes if we try too many different things, it only confuses the dog because we appear so inconsistant, but on the other hand, there's no sense in continuing to repeat what doesn't work. When she bites you, is it a hard bite that breaks the skin and draws blood, or would you consider it more mouthing with no pressure?
Also it's helpful to practice the handling exercises i describe in my book at times aside from when she's wanting to play and use those sessions to actively teach her not to bite. In other words, you work with her while she's a little more calm and able to pay attention and focus, rather than at times when she's maybe a little more frenzied.
 

Hi Gwen,

When Zelda bites, its only mouthing, never hard enough to break the skin. I'm afraid it may escalate to harder though. She has gotten much better. In the past couple days, i've been carefully watching my boyfriend and how he plays with her, and realized I need to train him! His play was way too agressive. He's gotten better too, which in turn has helped her. I may have been over-reacting, but I posted about the biting on a particularly bitey day. We're both being really careful in how we react when Zelda mouths, and I seem to notice some improvement.

I'm buying your book today! You've been such a help!!
 

Steph,
I'm glad to hear that you see improvement with her. It's pretty common that when misbehavior continues, there is someone in the family sabatoging our efforts. And i think you've found him. LOL!! Yes, training your boyfriend will do wonders for Zelda. In the beginning we train the pup to not bear down and bite really hard, but a little mouthing is acceptable. Then as we see improvement, we can start changing our criteria for what constitutes an unacceptable or hard bite. And if we watch our puppy, we usually know when things start to escalate and get out of hand. So we have to just stop it before it happens so in other words we're preventing the problem from becoming a habit. And you can work with her while she's calm. gwen
 

Gwen,

We recently adopted a 15-month old German Short Haired Pointer. She was very skittish at first, but has come into her own over the past 2 months as she has integrated into our family. One of the conditions of her adoption was that we have a fence. Because we live within a Homeowner's Association, it was quickest and easiest to install an electric fence.

My concern is that I don't want her attacking anyone that enters our yard. Last night I witnessed her bark at my teenage daughter's friends. The fur on her back went up, she crouched slightly, and barked at them. They were not overly concerned, letting her sniff their hands, etc. However, we live in a neighborhood with people of all ages and I don't want her to become aggressive/posessive if/when people go past the house or come to our house. What do I need to do to keep her from doing so?

Mary
 

Mary,
Treats, toys, praise! Try to have her associate all wonderful things in her life with people going past your home and friends entering your property. If the guest cannot or will not dispense the goodies, then you can do it for them. If you act uptight or fearful, she will notice that and also feel on guard. So laugh, tell her she's a good girl and give her the feeling that when people come by, it's party time. This will work really fast if she is very hungry and the treats you use are extremely tasty. So i wouldn't use a milkbone, i would use steak, sausage, chicken, cheese, liver, bacon. There should be no doubt in her mind that people are "good luck charms." Whenever they are around, suddenly all these yummy treats and fun toys appear. If she has any favorite toys, try to with hold them until you are outside and people are passing or for when company comes over.
 

Hi Gwen, Steph and Zelda again. I noticed that in your book, one of the "bad advice not to listen too" was putting your dog in a time out ( i haven't read the whole thing, so you might ahve answered it later). I find that when Zelda is getting super-bitey, its usually when she's over tired. I say "no bite" when she starts, and ignore her, but if she continues, then i'll put her in the kitchen. She has toys and her crate in there. Usually when I put her in there, she whines for a minute then goes to sleep. If she doesn't fall asleep, she'll whine then chew, then whine then chew. I never go to her when she's whining. Is this the wrong thing to do? I found that if I leave her out after she bites, as I'm standing there with my arms folded, not looking at her, she continues to jump and chew on my pant legs. Is there a right and wrong way to "time out"? Or is it just plain wrong, and if so, why?
Thanks once again for all your help. If i'm overreacting to normal puppy behavior, just let me know...lol
 

Hi Steph and Zelda,
i realize now that i need to be more specific on the time-out issue. Usually when someone uses or recommends time-out, it is ineffective because the dog is never instructed on acceptable and unacceptable behavior. I have found that when isolation (time out) is used, eventually the dog spends it's entire life in isolation because the owner never attempted to resolve the problem. The time-out was just a means of ignoring a problem which eventually only got worse and worse until the owner got rid of the dog or abandoned it in the back yard day and night. How you are using time-out is appropriate because of all the other work you are doing with her. Thanks for pointing that out and helping clarify it for other readers.
I would rather you over react to normal puppy behavior than to ignore what might possibly be a sign of potential trouble. gwen
 

Hi Gwen!
I seem to have found the miracle cure for Zelda's biting! I've read in many different places that a water pistol is a great training tool. I always wanted to try it, but always forgot to pick one up while I was at the store. I finally remembered, and so far it has stopped Zelda in her tracks. Once she starts nipping, a little spritz around her neck stops her immediately, and she just sits and stares at me with a dazed look on her face. After only 2 days of this, she has almost stopped with the play biting.
I'm afraid though that she'll get used to the water. I've read some things about watering down the bitter spray and using that, or binaca mouth spray. What do you think about that? Or is water the best? I'm afraid the bitter and binaca might get into her eye and hurt them.
Also, a little update on her breed.. we now think she is part husky. Many people have commented that she looks like a miniture husky (except she's a sable color) but she is much smaller. Our vet/friend also said she's starting to look more like a husky, and the dog trainer at puppy class says she acts like a husky... loves everyone and every dog and gets right in their face and introduces herself! She's defintitely going to be bigger than a sheltie and parson russell, but smaller than a husky. I don't know what she is anymore...lol!
 

that's great news. if you have to dilute the bitter apple or binaca, then you may as well just be on the safe side and use plain water. If you over use it, then she will become desensitized to it and it won't be effective anymore, but hopefully the biting will have stopped and you won't have to use it. I used to just hold up the water bottle (i used a plant sprayer instead of a water pistol as it wasn't a good example in classes with children to be pointing even a toy gun at dogs) and my dog would instantly stop whatever it was she was doing, usually barking.
One of the fun things about having a mixed breed dog is figuring out what exactly they are. Sometimes you never know for sure and they keep you guessing. And as they grow and mature from puppies, different physical and behavioral traits emerge, changing your prior guessing almost altogether! I'm happy you are enjoying her so much.
 

Hi Gwen,

I just wanted to give an update and encouragement to others with mouthing/biting puppies. I considered getting rid of Libby when she was about 13 weeks old not only because her biting was relentless, but mostly because she had snapped at us a few times with lip curled. Libby -- a lab, shepherd, hound mix OR husky/beagle mix.. who knows what she is I keep hearing different theories -- is now 5 1/2 months old. We just graduated puppy kindergarten. She had the longest down/stay and won a chew bone! And more importantly, her biting is almost completely gone. At times of very high excitement, she will still go for my pantleg. I would say this happens maybe 2x a week. But I say "don't even think about it" and she stops herself. Occassionally she will put her mouth on me when I'm rubbing her face or brushing her... she does this very softly. Big change. We are now taking a "graduate puppy" class. Obedience training is making a huge difference-- and Libby seems more relaxed overall. Except of course when she's doing that crazy puppy run (which is hysterical). I'm not saying she's a perfectly behaved dog at this point, but she has made tremendous improvement. And she's sleeping on my feet right now, so I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy about the whole thing : > So HANG IN THERE everyone!

Libby's Mom
 

Jlynne,
To really do justice in answering your question i need much more information. How long have you had him? How old are the kids? Does he ever growl at you or any other family members. Has he ever snapped? When you say he takes an aggressive stance, what exactly do you mean by this? Just off hand, it would worry me too as a growl is very often a precursor to biting. If you really want to work this out, i would recommend that you have a dog trainer/behaviorist evaluate him and give you a professional opinion. It's difficult for me to access his behavior on the little information i have, but i would put your children's safety as a priority. There are ways to stop this but it may not be cost or time effective and the risk may be too high.
 

Jlynne,
i agree with you. As much as i love dogs, i feel your children must come first. It sounds as if your dog is exhibiting fearful/avoidance aggression and this will not be changed by neutering. These traits are not uncommon in shepherds and chows. Chows notoriously do not like to be touched. I wish there was a simple cure. I understand your feeling guilty and distraught, but think of how much worse you will feel if your child or a neighbors child is bitten. By then it will be too late. Perhaps when the kids are older and can be more involved in the training, you can get a more family-oriented breed.
 

HI Gwen, I wrote a few months back about my cocker spaniel who was sleeping on my bed. She's still sleeping with me, but not ON me anymore... now we're both happy :) I'm writing this time with another concern. This past weekend I visited my parents & their 1 year old cocker (Quincy). My dog (Miga) is 4. On 2 occaisions Quincy attacked Miga. The first time was a clear case of guarding his food, although she was about 2 feet away from his food bowl. He lunged right for her face. The 2nd time she was simply sitting watching me. This time he also lunged at her face but then clamped down on her hind quarters. I pulled him off her by the scruff (along with a clump of her fur)& gave him a VERY stern NO. My parents then put him in his crate for an hour. When they let him out, he seemed unaffected by Miga. My brother was there with his mini-yorkie & they were running around the house. Anyway, this is not the first time Quincy has attacked Miga. Could there be a reason he goes straight for her? An odor or something? She is spayed & he is neutered so I don't believe that to be an issue. Any thoughts would be appreciated since I now face having to board my dog whenever I go home.
Thanks, Stephanie
 

Stephanie,
This is very unusual behavior and without an extensive case history and observing their interactions with each other and other dogs, etc. i find it almost impossible to come up with a reason for Quincy attacking Miga. Apparently she really pushes his buttons and challenges his security. But regardless of the reason, i certainly would not let my dog around him. I'm sorry as i know it can be inconvenient to board him when you go home.
Is there any way you can keep them separated when you're home, like keep her safely locked in a room or crate or keep him locked up somewhere - or alternate who's locked up? I'm guessing that you're only visiting for a weekend or short time.
 

Hi Gwen,
Thanks for your quick response. I had suggested separating the dogs Friday night but my dad objected. Why, I am not certain. Instead he sent Quincy to a kennel for the weekend. From what I know of Quincy's interactions with other dogs, he has not had the same confrontational behavior with any other. He is frequently in doggie daycare & they haven't complained. My assumption is that he is guarding his territory - both his home & my parents. Do you think this is something he could overcome with more exposure to Miga or is this a type of behavior that isn't correctable?
Stephanie
 

Stephanie,
I think if they had enough time together they could work it out and become friends, but it's going to be very stressful. Sometimes i know a problem is correctable, but i prefer to take the path of least stress especially if the situation is only occasionally encountered. If you go to your parents house alot, it would be worth it to work on it. But if it's not that often and it's just as easy to keep your girl elsewhere, that might be simpler. Let's assume you want to try to work it out. I would begin by taking them to neutal territory frequently and especially when you first arrive so he doesn't feel protective on anything. Try to have them associate good and fun times together. Before you arrive, your parents should pick up and put away anything they could fight about - food bowls, even if empty, toys, etc. Since you sort of know what provokes the attacks, you can try to prevent them. If he hasn't drawn blood on her, you can probably relax more, but what bothers me is how you described how he clamped down on her and wouldn't let go and when you had to pull him off, he took a mouthful of fur with him. This is probably the reason i would not try to let them work it out. What if it were her face and what if he doesn't let go? What if he takes a chunk of her face instead of a patch of fur? I guess the bottom line for me would be that i would never trust him and i would be too protective of my little girl. You may have more tolerance for risk than i have. It's normal for dogs to be protective and even have fights or disagreements, but is it not normal or acceptable for them to bite, clamp down and hold. This is common with the fighting breeds, but cocker spaniels are not bred to be fighters.
 

Thanks, Gwen!
I agree with you completely & I'm going to relay all your advice to my parents. Maybe they will understand this is a big deal after all & shouldn't be treated lightly.
Stephanie & Miga :)
 

Good luck! keep us posted.
 

Hi Peggy,
you don't indicate if your new dog is afraid of men or doesn't like them to the point she tries to attack and bite them. Does she just growl, or bark or snap or what? If she's had tramatic experiences with men in her past, she may never learn to like them or trust them ever, at this age. In order to socialize her with men you need a few brave men to volunteer and if she is lunging and snapping, you may have no volunteers. This is potentially a very serious problem. You don't say where she came from, but maybe the prior owner has information to share with you. Was she a stray or adopted from a shelter? If you adopted her, the staff at that facility should beable to give you some guidance.
 

Thank you so much for your kind words. It's good that at least she is comfortable with your husband. ONe of the quickest way to get a dog over it's fear of people is to make sure all people (and in this case all men) are associated with treats. If they are friends and willing to cooperate, they can gently toss a treat towards her. Once she gets a taste, she may decide it's ok to approach and take a treat from their hand. This will work best if she is hungry and the treat is super yummy, like a piece of cheese or hamburger or hotdog, not just a dry boring milkbone.If these suggestions don't work and if the humane society is unable to help you, you might consider ordering my book "Help! My Dog has an Attitude" from amazon.com. Fearfulness and aggression and socialization are all covered more extensively in it. Blessings to you too!!
 

I'm new to your blog and hope you can give me some advice. I have a 6-year old male Corgi named Lupine and have recently gotten a Corgi puppy who we've named Emma. After reading your book "Help..." I realize that as a result of my inconsistency, Lupine considers me subordinate to him. My husband is top dog around our house (according to Lupine, anyway!) but I'm the one who is with Lupine all day as well as the one who took him to obedience classes. I want to go through the "who is in charge here?" exercises with him asap, but am not sure that it is the best time since we have this new puppy. Emma is kind of pushy and although Lupine growls at her and generally "puts her in her place," I don't want the 10-day to 3-week subordination exercises to put us in the position where Emma thinks she is dominant to Lupine. I don't think that's what we want--or do we? Or, will the dogs just figure it out on their own once Lupine has been knocked down a few notches? Emma is about 15-weeks old and indicates to us that she recognizes her subordinate status with my family and Lupine (and to most older dogs) by exposing her stomach quite readily. But like I say, she's pushy and fairly bold natured. For instance, at the last kindergarten puppy class she was playing with two other Corgi female puppies (both were older than Emma by a few weeks) and she mounted them. This makes me think that she has a tendancy to believe she's the queen when she's with other puppies. Although maybe I'm reading her actions incorrectly. Tonight at class I'm planning on steering her to the bigger puppies who might intimidate her a bit more.

Can you give me any advice? Like I said, I'd really like to get moving on the subordination regimen with Lupine but don't want to introduce anything that might have a negative result that I can't foresee.

Thanks,

Marne
 

Hello,
Sorry it took so long for me to reply, i've been having trouble logging onto the blog and having posts appear AND i was in california picking up Kaylee!! I don't think you need delay your exercises with Lupine. Do them with Emma as well but much more gently since she isn't in need of changing her social standing, but it will reinforce her position. It shouldn't have any affect on their relationship as he is already "dominant" over her. All you will be doing is showing him that he is subordinate to you as well as to your husband. In fact both the "kids" are subordinate to both you and your husband, and they should work out their own social hierarachy which seems like they already have. Emma is probably trying some of the "moves" and attitudes that Lupine displays to her on the other puppies in class. It doesn't necessarily mean she's a dominant dog but probably just testing the water and working out her rank within the play/training group. I personally wouldn't want to completely demoralize her by having her always be at the bottom of the pack unless she prefers being there, in which case it wouldn't make a bit of difference to her if the other dogs were social "bullies," as long as they weren't aggressive or downright mean. Hope this makes sense, if not, please write back with more questions. I'm a little overwhelmed with Kaylee right now and will be posting my experiences with her as soon as i have some time to sit at the computer.
 

Hi there Gwen, I am new to this site but have enjoyed reading all your useful information. We have a German Shepard who is 18 months old, yesterday we picked up an 8 week old Kusky. We are crate training her but appears to not like being on here own in it, she cried constantly! I know we have to keep going with it! Our Shepard loves playing with it but tries to bite it and today has been barking at it, i can stop this by telling her NO. She is only playing but just gets so excited! Do you have any comments on this and what we can do, your help would be great. Many thanks.
 

As you've probably already read, the crate training is a process and you might find some good hints under the topic Training Issues on the blog. When i've brought a new puppy in the pack and my older dogs got too rambunctious, i would tell them, "gently" rather than "No." I want them to understand that the behavior is ok and not being disapproved of completely (which NO implies) because you do want her to play with the puppy, but you want to tone down the excitement. Your tone of voice and light restraint should help get the message across. As the novelty wears off, she shouldn't get so excited and eventually the two of them will be great playmates. If you have enough property to walk them on leash around your yard or house you can bring them together in a fun way but also keep the older one more under control with the leash. It's not a good idea to take the younger one off your property until she has the requisite number of puppy shots.
 

Hey, it's great to know you've finally gotten your puppy! I'll be surprised if you have a free minute to answer any blogs in the next week or so!

Thanks for your advice about Lupine's subordination exercises. Most everything you said makes sense, but I do have a few questions. First, when you say to put Emma through a mild version of the exercises, do you mean have her sit before I play with her, feed her, etc., that kind of thing? I have been doing that; I also do the "handling" subordination exercises with her. In addition, I have added the 30-second pause while playing tug-of-war that you recommend in your book. She's really motivated to go "off" in order to play again.

My second question relates to Lupine. He hurt his foot on Sunday and is supposed to rest it for a week or so, plus I have to ice it through today. Because of the icing I can't start his subordination exercises until tomorrow. I figured that tomorrow is as good a time as any to start since he can't go for walks anyway. I think that's going to be the hardest thing for both of us. He loves his runs every day and I love taking him. Anyway, my question right now is, when you say in your book that we aren't supposed to talk to the dog, does that mean everything other than commands? Like most dog lovers, I talk to my dogs all the time. I assume you mean to cut out that idle chit chat (and of course, no singing to Lupine). Is that what you mean? Or do you mean absolutely no talking at all? Yikes!

That's all for now, but I'm sure something will come up during this subordination period. I am looking forward to the positive results, but not so much to the process! Oh well, I've made my bed, now I have to lie in it! I'm just so glad that there's something I can do about this at this late date.

I look forward to your reply.

Have fun with your new baby girl.

Marne
 

Marne,
Yes, you're doing the right thing with your exercises and the handling thing. By asking Emma to sit, etc or be handled before any playtime, treats, feeding etc, you're training her and preventing any problems from arising in the future. You're going to find that gaining the "top dog" position will be easier for her because there is no precedent already set. It's more difficult to change positions than to simply start out in the proper hierarchy. So you're doing great.
I'm sorry about Lupines injured paw, but it does put you in an advantageous position as he is in a more vulnerable position. You're not going to be mean or anything, you're just going to give him a different perspective of who is in control of the "goods."
By 'no talking' i mean the constant doting over them. I'm always telling my dogs how pretty they are, how smart they are, how cute they are, etc (ad nauseum to some people.) LOL!!
So that's reserved as a special treat when they are compliant or being particularly well behaved.
 

Hi Gwen

I thought I'd ask you a couple of more questions about Lupine's subordination "experience" and you can maybe address all my questions at once--if it's easier for you. I hope you're having a great time with Kaylee; puppies are so great!

Well, we're on hour 6+ of Lupine's dethroning. He sure can't figure out what's going on! I can barely look at him--which is probably good. When you say in your book that when the owner is home she should either have the dog tied to her or tied to a heavy piece of furniture. I am assuming that it is also ok to have Lupine in a "penned in" area while I'm home--is that correct? Or is it important to have him with me at all times yet not "relate" to him in my typical way? I ask because I have a home-based business and Lupine does not readily go up the stairs to my office (he slipped on them several times so he's scared of that particular set of stairs). The cats also maintain a refuge up there, so I haven't really encouraged him coming up. So, is it better for me to bring him upstairs to keep him with me, or is it ok to have him penned in the hallway downstairs? I don't work up there all day or anything and I come downstairs a lot. He's got plenty of room in the hall--it's just not very exciting--no windows, etc.

Also, when I have him tied to me, Emma often grabs his lead and pulls at him. I know this is supposed to be a subordination exercise--but it shouldn't be totally degrading--right? I kind of think that Emma's tugging might be just that. I tell her "no/off" and she leaves it, but two seconds later she grabs it again--or rediscovers it later and starts bugging him again. At 4 months she probably ought to be able to leave it alone, but it's moving and very fun to attack and play with. How forceful should I be in telling her to leave the leash alone? Either I should say it and mean it or not say it at all--right? She loves being around him, so it increases her fascination with it because it's hooked to Lupine.
 

Hello again,
I think it's ok to leave him penned downstairs since it's difficult to unintentionally reward him for inappropriate behavior when you're not with him. I often find it difficult to work on my computer and train my puppy at the same time. She's too distracting. So it's usually one of the other. A few times i tried to tie her to my chair and she's ripping the paper from the printer, stealing pencils, chewing, digging, barking and peeing. So....... until she gets a little older and more trained i'm keeping her in her pen or crate during computer time. At least she sleeps alot at this age. Besides i wouldn't want the kitty's territory to be infringed on or you might end up with litterbox problems to boot.
It might be a good time to practice with Emma on her "no/off" command or work on a down stay with her while Lupine is tethered. But you also want to give them their special time to play, so after they've been good for a certain amount of time, you can reward them both simultaneously by letting them play together.
You might also avoid the whole issue by soaking his leash in Bitter Apple so when she grabs at it, the taste will stop her and you won't have to say or do a thing.
 

I should have thought of the bitter apple--it's sitting right on the kitchen counter in full sight! Duh! I'll try that.

I feel like I should have a more intuitive understanding of this subordination stuff than I do. Sorry I keep asking all these questions. I hope this is my last one (but don't hold your breath).

You say it's ok to reward the dogs by letting them play together. Can I let Lupine play even though he's going through this lengthy subordination process? I say "lengthy" because I'm thinking it's going to take him a while to "get it." He is so mad at me! If looks could kill! Yesterday he went in his crate and wouldn't come out. I got the leash to take him out to go potty, and when and came toward him he started to raise his lips at me. Like you say in your book, the dog is great 99% of the time, and then I want him to do something that he isn't thrilled about doing--he pushes back, which is unacceptable. Also, he got in my daughter's bedroom yesterday and went under her bed (his favorite refuge is under beds--especially in my room.)He bared his teeth to her when she told him to come out.) All of this is good reinforcement for me to remember just why we're doing this subordination stuff.

My question relates to your comment that I should reward Lupine and Emma's good behavior by letting them play. (Although for Lupine, that might not be a great "carrot"--her attention still bugs him more than she pleases him.) Can I allow that play even during this time that the subordination exercises with Lupine aren't "sinking in yet"? At this point there really isn't anything he's blatantly doing wrong during the day unless I ask him to do something he doesn't feel like doing. Do I keep testing that in milder ways--like telling him to "come" and not allowing him to ignore me? and then if he responds properly I can let him play with Emma? I'm kind of confused because I understood that Lupine was not supposed to be interacted with much at all until he has his "epiphany."

Could you explain that aspect of the subordination process to me? How much interaction with the dog (both with family and Emma) is acceptable when he hasn't yet accepted that I'm boss?

Thanks,

Marne
 

It would be much easier and clear cut if Emma wasn't in the picture, but her socialization and need to play with Lupine can't be neglected either; and that's the only reason for allowing him the freedom to play with her - for her benefit, not his. But we do want to make it as much a learning experience for him as well, so that's why he has to "earn" his time with her. Just ask him to do some simple command that he can easily obey so he sees his off-leash free time with Emma as a reward. If we wait for him to have his epiphany before Emma gets to play with him, then she's going to miss out on a critical socialization period for herself. I don't mind helping clarify any confusion, so don't worry about asking questions. And when the time comes that you don't have any questions, it's nice if you drop a line now and then just to give me an update. I always wonder and worry how things turn out.
 

I wanted to give you an update on Lupine's subordination exercises. We are on day 6 and he is showing some signs of "breaking"--I can tell that he is becoming more and more unsure of himself--but we haven't gotten there yet. He doesn't like to be on a lead all of the time. Apparently he'd rather be in his crate! Yesterday when I was reaching into his crate to undo his lead, he did the "lips" at me, so I told him "no," left the lead on him, and just closed his crate. I tried it again later and he came right out when I told him to come.

He still doesn't come to me consistently when I call him--but he's getting better. It's like he's thinking about it and then he comes. However, he still will totally ignore me if I tell him to come out of his crate and he doesn't want to. I do think he'll crack in about 5 more days. I dream about the time I will be able to take him on a walk again. However, I'm not letting him off leash for a while. I'm afraid if we go right back to letting him have a free run, he'll slide back into "His Majesty" mode.

I do have a question: I make him sit, down, off, roll a few times while I am hand feeding him his meals. I don't make it too degrading, but I'm trying to show him who has the upper hand. This is to do at meal time, isn't it?

I did want to tell you about a really cool thing that happened. Remember that I told you that Lupine really doesn't have much time for Emma? She wants to play and he only looks at her as an annoyance. But, since you said that Emma needs to socialize with Lupine to ensure her proper development, I've been encouraging that. It's really the only activity he gets. Yesterday, Lupine and Emma actually PLAYED! They were playing tug of war with a squeeky toy, and then chasing all around the yard. I had to get them started on the toy, but then they took it from there. Lupine was having a great time. I don't think he's played like that since he was a puppy. He just isn't a "dog's dog." Needless to say, Emma was in heaven--she's wanted her "big brother" to play with her for two months!

I'm hoping I can use more play time with Emma as a carrot for Lupine during this subordination period. I know he's bored stiff!
As time goes on, it has been getting easier for me to be "hard hearted" with him. I know it's for everyone's good--especially Lupine's.

Keep your fingers crossed for me!

Marne
 

Marne,
Wow!! You're making remarkable progress very quickly. YOu're doing fantastic!!! Yes, meal times are a great opportunity to make him understand that you're the leader and provider; so continue as you've been doing. I think his "attitude adjustment" has also softened him up so that he doesn't feel it beneath him to play with Emma. So they're both benefitting from that. Great news. thanks for keeping me posted.
 

Gwen

I think Lupine may have finally "cracked." However, it's only day 8 and I'm wondering if I'm just being too optimistic. I've even tested him a couple of times today: I made him lie down on his side and I messed around with his feet, his mouth, and his ears. He let me do it without being pissy about it--although I could tell he didn't like the foot handling. I'm taking this as a good sign because (1)he hates to lie down on his side on command, and (2) he has always had a very short tolerance for anyone messing with his feet. I am also interpreting as positive his willingness to come out of his crate on command now. (Just yesterday he wouldn't do it unless I popped his leash a good one.) My questions are (1) Could he really be at the point that he sees me as the "Queen Bee"? (2) Should I test him further by letting him go into my bedroom and under the bed (his most favorite of all places) and see if he comes out when I tell him to? I'd keep his lead on him and drag him out if he doesn't come on command. Or, (3) should I give it a couple more days to ensure that this subordination has sunk in for real?

When I do finally let up on this full-blown subordination stuff, I know I'm supposed to constantly reinforce my dominance--he has to say "please" and "thank you" for everything. I will continue to work on obedience with him. When things are normal, I usually take him to a park where he can be off leash. Should I keep him on a lead for the first few days I take him out?

I read what you were saying about Kaylee having to pee a lot. Emma was like that too. She even peed in her crate, something Lupine never did. (Alhough I see from your blog that that isn't uncommon.) However, with Emma, I noticed after she peed she would lick herself--which may be normal, I didn't know. I took a sample of her urine to the vet because I thought she might have a urinary tract infection. She did--and actually had to go through 2 courses of antibiotics before it was cleared up. This is probably unusual for a puppy straight from the breeder, but I thought I'd tell you about it. As soon as the UTI was cleared up, she slept through the night. Maybe a coincidence. She hasn't had an accident in the house for a good month. She even rings the bell we have hanging on a ribbon on the back door knob when she wants to go out! I haven't introduced her to the dog door yet because I don't want her going out without my knowing--plus she is still too little to go down the small flight of stirs that lead to the dog door. (She is curious about it though--she sees the cats disappear, right into the wall!)

I anxiously await your comments on Lupine.

Thanks,
Marne
 

Hi Marne,
I tend to err on the side of caution so i think i would wait a few more days to make sure it really has sunk in. When you do test him and call him out from under the bed, besides being in a position to enforce it should he not obey, also have a treat ready and give him lots of praise if he does emerge willingly. We want him to associate good feelings with his new position in the pack.
I would keep him on lead when you start taking him out again just so he associates your role as Queen Bee in all circumstances and in all locations. Some dogs think, "ok, you're the boss at home, but in the park, forget it, I'm boss here!" So we just want to take a few precautions that he doesn't adopt that attitude.
Thank you for the comment on Emma's UTI. I considered it and if her peeing in the crate continued i would have checked that out. But that behavior has gone away (knock on wood) at least for now. We'll see how things go as she changes and finds new things to do every day.
 

Hi Gwen

I apologize beforehand for how long this entry is going to be. It's probably going to sound like a "True Confessions" article, but here goes.

Maybe I was too optiministic about Lupine's "getting" the hang of this subordination business. He has been doing great--lots of positive changes in him, I think. Yesterday he managed to slip into my bedroom and went under the bed. He had his lead on, and I did what you recommended--I got some really good treats and then went back into the bedroom and called him out. (He didn't know I had treats.)He came out immediately and I gave him mucho praise and goodies. The other positive thing he did (or didn't do) was go crazy when I started the BBQ. I haven't mentioned it, but Lupine goes nuts over lots of weird things--mostly things that make funny noises--the sound of me opening the ironing board, opening or closing blinds, and, like I said, opening and starting the BBQ. Well, last night he was in his crate when I went to start the BBQ (his crate is in viewing distance of our deck--He knew where I was going and what I was doing). He didn't go nutzo at all! He didn't even bark.

However, I now see that these examples of positive behaviors do not necessarily add up to mean that Lupine has accepted me as leader. Since I need him to socialize with Emma, this afternoon I let both of them into the yard and they each had an old bone to chomp on. I made them both down stay before they got the bones. He thought he was in heaven--it's the first thing he's been allowed chomp on at leisure in 11 days. A few minutes later I told him "off" and took the bone away. I planned to give it back to him right away, as soon as he "sat" on command. He didn't react negatively/aggressively at all when I took the bone--but *&#!! he wouldn't sit! When I reached for his collar to "help" him sit (I didn't get mad or loud), he bared his teeth at me. I should add here that he has never been adverse to my taking food from him--I've always been able to stick my hand into his food bowl or take a bowl with food in it away from him without any problem. He DOES, however, take great exception to my trying to get something from him that he's found (like a dead bird or something gross like that) or something he's snitched (like the time I dropped a baggie of chopped liver treats on the ground when I had to grab Emma really fast). He can get pretty territorial/aggressive at those times.(That "liver" incident was what led me to seek out your book!)

Something else he did makes me wonder if I need to do something different or differently during this "dethroning" period. In puppy class the teacher showed us the "old" way that they used to teach dogs to sit and lie down. You physically "position" them. The instructor said that it's a good technique to use when a puppy gets to be an adolescent and decides he doesn't want/have to sit or lie down on command. You can just position them and say "Oh, I knew you could sit! Good dog!) I thought I'd try the positioning technique with Lupine. He didn't really have a reaction to the sit positioning, but he really didn't want to accept the down positioning--he didn't seem comfortable with me putting my forearm under his elbows to slide his legs out in front of him. He started to lift his lips at me, so I told him to lie down the "regular" way--by command. Then I crated him. Over the last few days I've done the positioning exercise again several times and he still seems to be uncomfortable doing it but he goes with the flow and doesn't get all pissy about it. I encourage him gently while we are doing it but I haven't given treats. Maybe I should? It seems like he doesn't trust me when I've got my arm under him in that position. Is it because it makes him feel vulnerable and he still thinks he's alpha? I've NEVER done anything physically harmful to him, so I don't think he is afraid I'll hurt him. I don't know if my interpretation of it as a trust issue is correct or not.

Here's where the confession comes in: Over the last few days through this afternoon he's been doing so great, my husband and I agreed that I could take Lupine for a short walk. Well, the walk went great--he couldn't believe his luck. I had him on leash the whole time and made him down stay for 3 minutes before we even started walking. He held it flawlessly. When we walked I kept him at my side and wouldn't let him go ahead of me. (I don't know if that makes any psychological difference or not, it seemed that it did.) Then when we got home I allowed him to walk around the living room and outside without his lead. It was a bit after that when we had the aforementioned "bone" incident.

I realize now I probably screwed up giving him a walk--but I really thought it was time, after all he's been through and how he's been acting.

Do I deserve 40 lashes with a soggy squeeky toy? Where do I go from here--back to the drawing board? Right now he's back on his lead or in the penned-off hallway. I often re-read your words a lot on "Whose in charge here?" to keep me encouraged. It usually works, but I think I need more than that offers at this point.

Will it really be obvious when he's finally "bitten the bullet" on my being leader? Or am I correct in thinking that the changes come come bit by bit?

Help!

Marne

PS--I love that picture of Kaylee's and Cloe's rear ends. So cute!
 

First, i'm glad you can keep your sense of humor thru this. Usually during the dethroning process, things get much worse before they get better and owners get very frustrated that things are not working. But the dog tries his best to resist the process before he or she relents. I think you're both progressing magnificently and that you're being a little hard on yourself and on him. Because he's been so incredibly successful in some areas, we're disappointed when he's not perfect in all aspects. It doesn't alarm me that he's had these incidents with the lip curling because overall, your progress is forward. Perhaps you need to slow things down a bit more. Instead of testing him, set him up to succeed at fairly easy things so he can continue to be rewarded for them. When you do something on the more difficult level like taking away a bone, go ahead and return it with lots of verbal praise and leave out the "sit" part of it for now.
A few things i would do: Practice reaching for his collar with one hand while dispensing a treat or morsels of his kibble from your other hand. Even tho this usually isn't a problem, it was the trigger that set him off during the bone exchange event. So get him really accustomed to having his collar reached for and grabbed. If he snarls at you during this process, throw a verbal tantrum, walk away ignore him for awhile and then give him the silent treatment and confine him. You might start the exercises with him on leash so if it does deteriorate, you have a way to take him to his pen. But go slowly so he doesn't feel the need to snarl and don't over do it. Just half a dozen reps at a time would be sufficient, unless he shows he enjoys it, then you can do more. Also use a happy tone of voice when reaching for him.
Second, do practice the hands-on enforcement/positioning of the "down" command, but make it light, gentle, fun and use lots of treats. Whether he doesn't trust you or doesn't like being subordinate or vulnerable doesn't really matter. You can change his mind regardless of his reason for being uncomfortable. I usually use a "giddy happy baby talk" kind of verbage when doing these type of handling exercises.
Third: i would continue with his walks because i think you both deserve it. But of course keep him on lead when you return and perhaps return him straight to his penned off area or to his tie-down area. The enjoyable walk just probably went to his head a little too much, but afterwards you can gently remind him of his pack position by returning to the new routine.
I don't think i've ever seen the light bulb go on suddenly and a dog's demeanor change immediately or so quickly - except in young puppies who are testing the water for the first time.You're right that it is a process and may take many months to even over a year. But i'm sure he's worth it. Hang in there. I'm here if you have more questions.
 

Gwen

Thanks so much for your encouragement about Lupine's progress. I'm sure you understand how happy/relieved I am to hear that I can continue with his walks--we'll both be much happier for that. (I'm not so sure how well I'll be able to handle both Emma and Lupine on leashes simultaneously, but here goes....)

Your suggestion about grabbing his collar and dispensing a treat is a good one. I actually tried that last night on my own--so maybe I am starting to learn too! I realized that reaching for his collar is what seems to have brought on some of our past clashes. I've been working on this with Emma, so it occurred to me that I should do try it with Lupine too.

My question now relates to the "rules" of his confinement and our interaction with him. As you know, for probably 9 of the days we've been deprogramming him I have had only basic interaction/communication with him. I am still hand feeding him and water is offered to him every couple of hours unless I'm gone, and then he has a bowl in his pen. I still haven't let him go outside by himself--he still pees with a chaperone, and the only time he is off his lead or unconfined is when I let him have some free time with Emma. Can I lighten up on any of this or do I need to continue with my total control of these things? I realize that now he needs lots of verbal/goodie praise for him to recognize the true benefits of being a notch lower than he's used to. I'd like to have water out for Emma all of the time, and that can't happen when Lupine needs to have it removed. Can I let him go into the fenced yard off lead, on his own? That's probably pushing it, isn't it?

Thanks again for all your help. I'd never have been able to stick with this process for his long without you! My friends keep telling me that they are going to send their kids to me for improvement. No thanks!

Marne
 

LOL!!! i'd rather have problem dogs over kids anyday of the week. At least we can legally pen our dogs, what would we do with roudy children????
To make life easier for you and Emma, i think it's ok to leave the water out. It's not such a valuable commodity compared to everything else that's being withheld and he's already had 9 days of limited access, so maybe he'll realize he's won the reward of permanent free access to water..... until he shows he's undependable around it. I can't imagine him guarding water, but i have seen dogs aggressive over their water bowl.
I also think you can start lightening up a bit, but very slowly and very little at a time. If he shows he can handle that little bit of freedom, then gradually expand it and anytime he "reverts," then so do you. So it's 2 steps forward, one step back and maybe some weeks it will be 5 steps forward and one step back or 3 steps back and only one step forward. If you makes notes it's easier to see his progress.
If he's been especially compliant and good, then i'd give him some freedom in his own fenced yard. Start out by taking him there on leash and let it drag behind him so that if you need to, you can simply grab the end of the leash rather than have to reach for his collar and possibly provoke an unpleasant situation.
And make it easy for him the first few times by not giving a command that he might fail at and then immediately have to lose his freedom. Start with something really easy and reward profusely.
I think your instincts about this are really really good and most of what you're doing is just getting validation from me. So keep it up!! You're both doing great. and so is little Emma. But keep me posted and again don't be shy about asking questions.
 

Hi Gwen, I have been reading this site all morning in hope of finding some help for our family. Our five month old Goldendoodle; Kula has been nipping and play biting since we got her at two months. At the advice of our vet, I have been flipping her on her side, holding her mouth and saying "no mouth". She has improved with myself and my husband, but not the children. She jumps on them, bites their clothes and bites on their arms. Now when I try to reprimand her she runs away from me and barks in play position. I was thinking that biting is just her way of trying to get some play time, since she never seemed vicious about it. We've tried to replace that behavior with other ways of playing and I was hopeful it would work out.
Last night, however, things got worse and she bit my seven year old son under his eye. He didn't need stiches, but I am sick to my stomach just thinking about it. She was trying to nabb a piece of pizza off the counter when my son came up behind her to get it away from her she turned and bit him. One thing we were starting to do is give her table scraps, pizza crusts, etc., so we are no longer going to do that. The kids have always petted her while she's eating and she never had any reaction. I did notice her recently starting to growl when we were taking shoes or other things out of her mouth, but I'd always offer her something else and she never bit.
I grew up with "biters" and wanted nothing more than a well behaved family dog. My children have fallen in love with her and this just breaks my heart. My son even lied and said that she had scratched him because he knew she'd be in deep do-do for biting. This morning he sat next to her crate talking to her and pleading with us not to get rid of her.
We have three children, ages 7, 9, and 11. They always have friends over, so we can not have a biter.

She has had two weeks of oppedience classes and has done very well with the other dogs. I asked the trainer what to do about the play biting (at that time) and she said to make her bite herself in the gums. I've tried this (hesitantly) and she whimpers and snaps at me when I release the hold. We also tried yelping and ignoring, but she just keeps on biting on the kids clothes, etc. The teacher also said I should expect her to behave badly becauses she is a Goldendoodle and "no breeder in thier right mind would ever breed thier golden with a poodle" and "all the recessive genes will come out in her.". Needless to say, I'm not very happy with the instructor.

Anyway, please give us some hope. I have done a lot of research, but all of the "no nouth" type commands just aren't working well. She was housebroken in a week, knows "sit" and "down", but won't do them when she is jumping on the kids. I am willing to work hard with her, if there is a technique that will work. Most of the day she is mellow and sweet. We would really appreciate your advice. Thank you!
 

Dear Kula's family,
As noted at the top of my blog i am currently unable to devote the time necessary to really help with problems but when i read your post i could not just say nothing. There are many issues going on with Kula, but the main thing she needs is to learn her position in the social hierarchy as she is trying to take an upper hand over the kids. Kula needs some structured rules and activities that include the children. I wish there was a simple techique to just stop the biting, but there's more to it than just that behavior.
It's imperative that you find a trainer who can help you teach Kula her subordinate role without the use of punitive techniques and you need to find a more compassionate, open minded trainer than the one you describe. I'm appalled at the remark she made and ashamed that this person associates herself with this profession. I wish i were in a position to work with you and your family, but the best i can offer at the moment is for you to read my book, "Help! My Dog has an Attitude" because it describes exactly your puppy. I believe she is a good natured intelligent pup (most goldendoodles i've seen are sweet and very trainable) who is just going thru normal adolescent challenging behavior, but i agree that you cannot have a dog in a household with children if she is biting and untrustworthy.